On Content material Individuals, Meredith Farley interviews inventive professionals and leaders to get a behind-the-scenes have a look at their profession experiences and switch that into actionable recommendation for listeners. Tune in to listen to from specialists in numerous media, and get impressed to search out contentment in your personal inventive profession.
Episode #12 Abstract
Liv Albert is the creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” She chats with Meredith Farley on this episode about analysis, studying, Greek mythology, podcasting, the facility of a terrific story and extra. Pay attention alongside to search out inspiration in your personal inventive endeavors.
Content material Individuals: Analysis, Greek Mythology and The Energy of Podcasts
On this episode of Content material Individuals, I chat with Liv Albert, creator and host of the podcast “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!”. Along with her diploma in English Literature & Classics, she tells historical tales in a enjoyable, witty manner. She not solely writes, produces and hosts her podcast, however she’s additionally an creator of two Greek mythology books.
Liv fell in love with Greek mythology round seventh grade, when she noticed a ‘90’s miniseries on “The Odyssey.” Since then, she’s explored historical sources and honed her analysis expertise to convey these timeless tales to life.
“Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!” began out as a enjoyable thought, however Liv shortly realized that it had a lot extra to supply — each to her listeners and her life.
Listed here are just a few extra issues we discuss in between all of the myths and magic:
- The significance of giving your self time to follow and enhance.
- Dealing with feedback and not-so-constructive criticism.
- Discovering and understanding tales that matter.
Thanks for listening!
– Meredith Farley, Host of Content material Individuals
Extra Content material for Content material Individuals
Liv’s podcast: Take a look at “Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child!”
Liv’s ebook: Get your intro to the greats in “Greek Mythology: The Gods, Goddesses, and Heroes Handbook.”
Brafton: We is probably not mythological Greek heroes, however we are advertising and marketing heroes. Discover out why in our digital advertising and marketing publication.
Meredith’s publication: Take a look at Meredith’s publication (additionally referred to as Content material Individuals).
Podcast Transcript:
Meredith: Hey, everybody, and welcome to Content material Individuals. Tune in to listen to from creatives, leaders, and specialists in numerous media. I’m your host, Meredith Farley.
Ian: And I’m the present’s producer, Ian Servin.
Meredith: Hey, Ian.
At the moment, we talked to Liv Albert. Liv’s the creator, host, and producer of the very fashionable Greek and Roman mythology podcast, Let’s Discuss About Myths, Child. I like Liv’s present. I used to be actually glad to speak to her. In case you’re not conversant in it, it’s a twice weekly podcast wherein Liv dives deep into the main points of historical Greek and Roman myths and the historical past that surrounded them. She brings a very cool perspective, plenty of humor, sarcasm, and a contemporary lens to those tales. And he or she’s constructed up a very large listener face. The present will get tens of millions of downloads per yr. We talked to Liv in regards to the origins of the present and what she’s realized constructing such a profitable podcast from the bottom up.
Ian: Clearly, podcasts have been round for some time, however I really feel like so many different issues, they actually blew up through the pandemic. So it was tremendous cool to speak to somebody who actually constructed a present from the bottom up and grew an viewers and a neighborhood round it. Podcasts are clearly an excellent attention-grabbing format for content material. And with the entire consideration it’s been getting these days, it’s one thing that lots of people are . And Liv had so many nice issues to say, not nearly what makes a podcast particular, but in addition what makes good content material and how one can take your personal ardour and enthusiasm to make one thing that’s going to attach with an viewers.
Meredith: Yeah, it was nice to listen to from her on that. So with out additional ado, we hope you prefer it. Right here’s our convo.
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Meredith: Thanks a lot for becoming a member of content material folks and being on this episode.
Liv: Thanks a lot for having me. It’s very good.
Meredith: I’m so excited. I do know we have been simply chatting a second in the past about this, however I’ve been a very long time listener of your podcast. My pal Brianna really turned me on to let’s discuss myths, child. And he or she was really additionally on a later episode of this podcast.
So for listeners who aren’t conversant in you, might you share just a little bit about who you’re and what your podcast is about?
Liv: Yeah, so I’m Liv Albert. I created and host the podcast, let’s discuss myths, child, which is a factor I nonetheless dislike saying in entrance of different folks and simply the identify, not the podcast, clearly. Yeah, I began it about 5 and a half years in the past. I discuss Greek mythology. I retell tales and over the previous few years, I’ve taken to talking with like teachers and specialists and authors and all these completely different unbelievable folks in regards to the historical world and mainly each side at this level. I’ll take something if it options the traditional Mediterranean in any respect. That’s simply mainly my complete life at this level.
Meredith: When did your love of Greek mythology start and what do you suppose drew you to it?
Liv: So humorous, I get requested this like actually on a regular basis and I by no means have a terrific reply as a result of it’s mainly that like I’ve beloved it since I used to be a child, however I don’t bear in mind like the place that got here from particularly apart from I used to be a baby. I do bear in mind in grade seven and I say grade seven as a result of I’m Canadian. That’ll come out fairly fast.
I had this trainer who not solely taught us Greek mythology, but in addition he had us watch the there’s like this mini sequence from the 90s that like I’m of an age the place once I was in grade seven and for him to indicate us, it meant that he had like a VHS recording that he needed to roll a TV into the room and play this and we needed to quick ahead the commercials as a result of it was recorded from TV and all that.
However yeah, it was like this mini sequence of the Odyssey and that’s all I bear in mind is like having to observe that. I barely bear in mind what’s in it. I simply bear in mind watching that and have it’s like if it wasn’t the catalyst, it simply drew me deeper into Greek mythology
Meredith: For positive. I believe we’re of the identical age, so much like the previous recollections. I believe I watched that. What’s the identify of the man that’s in it? It’s like Armand.
Liv: Sure, yeah, precisely Armand, one thing in loads and like I don’t bear in mind what components of the odyssey it featured, I simply know, we watched it.
Meredith: Oh my, I yeah, I completely keep in mind that one and I believe that was my intro to Greek mythology as properly, though I didn’t keep it up in the identical manner. That’s actually that’s attention-grabbing.
So all proper, myths, I consider it as the unique content material and I’m actually tempted to dive proper into questions on myths as a result of I do know you’re such an knowledgeable, however as a result of this podcast is about inventive work and plenty of creatives are listening, I wish to one, acknowledge that you’ve got achieved a big success by means of your content material and two, ensure that as we go, I’m doing my finest to mine your experiences for actionable recommendation for listeners who additionally may wish to create one thing for themselves.
And so first, one factor I’m very interested in is to ask you to share just a little bit in regards to the daily work of me teaming reminiscent of profitable and it will appear to me actually labor and analysis heavy podcast, like what goes into an episode and what’s every week or two in your life usually like?
Liv: Yeah, so first I’d suggest to anybody wanting to do that to not do it the way in which that I’ve completed it, which is that I’m now incapable of relinquishing management on so many issues. And whereas I do have an assistant now, she mainly simply does the stuff that I’d have by no means had time to do if I didn’t have her.
So like hiring her simply gave us extra stuff. It didn’t take a lot off of my plate as a result of I’m a multitude. However that’s all to say, yeah, it’s extremely labor intensive. I typically simply continuously search for ways in which I could make it simpler on myself and I’ve but to search out them. However mainly, I launch two episodes of the podcast each week on Tuesdays. I do what I name a story episode. It’s the place it’s simply me telling tales from Greek mythology. Or on this case proper now, I’m within the midst of this large historical past sequence on Sparta, which is much more analysis intensive in a manner that makes me query the whole lot I’ve ever completed. However for the common episodes, for the Greek fantasy episodes, it does require plenty of analysis.
Fortunately, I’m fairly good at analysis now. And one of many issues that’s humorous is I can’t even actually quit the analysis facet to my assistant as a result of the whole lot I do in analysis, I do like concurrently whereas writing it. So I’ll have eight books open round me, like 10 completely different web sites. And I’m simply studying this stuff and typing the script as I am going. And so these episodes at all times have a script. It sounds actually off the cuff plenty of the time, I prefer to suppose at the very least, however it’s fully scripted for probably the most half. It’s similar to a stream of consciousness scripted. So it nonetheless seems like an individual rambling. However these are like 5 to 6 thousand phrases that I’m writing and researching each week.
After which Friday episodes are both like, I’ll simply learn one thing from the traditional world that’s like a translation that’s within the public area. And thus is like copyright free, or I will probably be talking to 2 teachers, specialists, authors and issues like that. In order that requires me to schedule and report and edit these conversations, which is why I typically do the studying episodes, as a result of they’re significantly simpler. So once I have to make my life just a little bit nicer in every week, I’ll do a kind of as an alternative. However typically I don’t as a result of I’ve too many superb folks that I’ve already recorded with or wish to report with. And it simply finally ends up like that. So like I’m recording with any person tomorrow. And so it, I yeah, it’s plenty of work, mainly, if that solutions the query. Nevertheless it’s clearly completed me properly.
Meredith: Yeah, that’s actually attention-grabbing. As you’re speaking, it’s reminding me just a little little bit of possibly like startup founders who’ve created one thing that’s like wholly of them. And even determining how you can in any manner divide and delegate feels completely unimaginable. So what it seems like is such an attention-grabbing course of.
So you’re researching and writing in actual time. And that’s for the not, however the scripted, however the simply you Tuesday episode. And then you definately’re additionally coordinating, researching and enhancing the dialog episodes. And that’s taking place in actual time each week. Or do you do a number of forward of time? Like, how do you’re employed that?
Liv: I attempt to do a number of forward of time. However clearly, as a result of they’re so labor intensive, it’s typically probably not potential as a result of there’s solely so many phrases you’ll be able to write in every week. And when one episode is 5 to six,000, additionally they continue to grow. Prefer it was extra like three to 4,000. And I simply preserve getting wordier and having an excessive amount of to say in each episode. In order that’s partially on me.
However I’m additionally actually acutely aware, like I’ve adverts in my present and that’s how I pay the payments. However I additionally by no means need the episode so quick that the adverts are overwhelming. So whereas I used to do what I referred to as mini myths have been like quick, temporary episodes. Now I don’t actually suppose that I’ve the flexibility to be that temporary anymore as a result of I’m too obsessive about the entire intricacies within the historical world, like that’s simply include what number of years I’ve been doing this. But in addition I by no means wish to launch episodes which are so quick that the adverts change into excessive. So it’s at all times like a juggling act with that as properly, which wasn’t actually the query that you simply requested. However yeah, it’s all taking place in actual time for probably the most half. And I do attempt to batch put together so typically I’ll do this with if I’m doing a studying episode, as a result of I can do these just a little simpler. So if I’m having a day the place I can simply bang out a few of these, I’ll, or if I’ve a bunch of conversations, I attempt to edit them in order that they’re able to go. As an illustration, like all my Sparta conversations are able to go now. And I’m working extra on the analysis ones as we go. Sorry, my, I’m making an attempt to not breathe straight into my microphone, however I’m speaking an excessive amount of, my respiration is troubling.
In order that’s mainly how I deal with these. My purpose is at all times to have like at the very least a month ready prematurely. However as a result of they’re so labor intensive, and I battle with ADHD, that was not an issue till I grew to become full time with the podcast. And now it’s very arduous to do issues prematurely as a result of I want the deadline as a way to drive my mind to do them. So it turns into, yeah it’s tough, however that’s at all times a purpose. It’s to work forward.
Meredith: Wow, that’s actually attention-grabbing. I’m listening to the Sparta sequence for what it’s price. And I completely like it. It’s so fascinating. And I really feel like if you pay attention, you’ll be able to really feel like they really feel like laborers of affection and like a real dedication to you being as thorough and complete and considerate as potential about this. These are actually attention-grabbing ideas. And I’m like, what do you, why do you even use sources? How do you discover your sources for these very complicated and in-depth tales?
Liv: The Sparta ones for one, thanks. I’m glad to listen to individuals are having fun with the Sparta ones. I’ve heard it from just a few folks and it really, prefer it makes a very large distinction as a result of these are like a whole, like me stepping out of all of my consolation zones and speaking about not solely historical past, however this a part of historical past that I’m not that conversant in. I did my BA, however I’m 10 years previous now. And what do I bear in mind from it? Not almost sufficient. And so the historical past ones are way more daunting for me and I’m questioning whether or not I’m simply rambling and sounding like I make any sense. However to date, so good.
However so for the analysis of the Sparta sequence, the one manner I used to be capable of do it’s that the assistant that I employed final yr, Michaela Smith, is one superb, however two, she is finding out classics in college. And so she not solely has a brisker grasp on all of this, however she additionally has entry to school publications and college libraries and the whole lot. So fortunately, like the entire analysis, primarily she pulled the whole lot that we may need after which put it into a way by which I might then use it. And we’ve been engaged on the scripts collectively loads in a manner that we don’t for the mythology as a result of I, it’s simply me storytelling in the intervening time. However for these ones, there’s much more she’s been writing a ton based mostly on her personal analysis and information.
After which I’ll go in and make it extra my voice, my humor, all these various things and like flesh it out with what I wish to say and make it rather less tutorial as a result of she’s caught in that headspace, which is basically useful for me. And I’ll simply decide by means of it and alter what I want. So for the Sparta one which’s been completely based mostly on her, however in relation to the mythology, like I’ve now spent so a few years doing this, just like the analysis strategies I exploit now versus 5 years in the past are unbelievably completely different. So the place I used to simply Google issues and see what I might discover and piece stuff collectively or I had one ebook of Greek myths that I used to be doing that and it was like, a retelling ebook, like a ebook, a scholar wrote of Greek myths relatively than the unique sources. And now I’m like, it’s very uncommon that I’ll use something that’s not a main supply like from the traditional world. And when it’s, it’s this two quantity set that I’ve, which is totally ineffective to anybody who’s simply coming at mythology from a passion standpoint.
And for any person like me, it’s deeply so useful. It’s referred to as early Greek myths by Timothy Gantz. And it’s like a supply ebook. Principally this tutorial went by means of and picked out each reference to each character in each historical supply. And he places all of them collectively and talks about what’s the similar and what’s completely different and what these bizarre issues are and who mentioned what and when and he typically has sources which are fragmentary or partially misplaced in a manner that it’s typically arduous to search out that as properly. In order that’s fully invaluable. There’s additionally a web site that’s like a lifesaver as a result of it compiles plenty of historical sources as properly. So mainly I’ll say I’m fairly acquainted now with the place to search out historical sources. I’ve so many books and so many alternative locations the place I can discover them.
So it’s simply plenty of piercing by means of 1,000,000 completely different sources making an attempt to stay to authentic sources or historical sources relatively or, students writing about these sources and it’s fairly wild. However I’ve simply turned it into an artwork at this level and might just about discover something.
Meredith: Yeah, sounds prefer it. Someplace associated to the trailer for the present or at the very least it was once I first began listening, which was just a few years in the past, you referenced, you mentioned, Hey guys, like begin at this episode quantity. And I believe the message was one thing to the impact of round this episode is if you really feel such as you honed in on how you can inform a narrative and the way we wished the podcast to be.
And one, I discovered that even simply interested by it now as somebody who’s completed like 10 episodes of a podcast, I discover that basically comforting as a result of it’s like, yep, you bought to do plenty of these earlier than you actually work out how you can do it. However you’re so good at it. Are you able to inform me just a little bit about what you realized about storytelling and podcasting from these early days?
Liv: Oh, God, yeah. The factor about podcasts that’s each superb and so irritating is that they only stay eternally, regardless of if you recorded them. Episodes I recorded and put on the market 5 and a half years in the past, individuals are coming to them as in the event that they’re a model new factor they’re listening to for good or unhealthy. It may be troubling. What you’re referencing is definitely the very first episode of the present has a disclaimer up on the prime. It says round this episode, I received higher at what I’m doing, I received higher at researching, I received a greater microphone, blah, blah, blah. And so I do have that on the very starting of the primary episode. And does it persuade folks?
No, everybody begins with the primary episode. My first episode is at all times the primary downloads of my complete present, together with I believe it was about one tenth of my complete downloads for this yr, which is sort of a reference. So yeah, like 2022, I had a complete of 400 episodes, clearly not launched in 2022. However by the top of the yr, my present had 400 episodes out there within the feed. And out of these 400, like our complete, I received one thing over 10 million, I believe downloads final yr. And a million of these downloads was my first episode.
Why are you doing this to me? It will get so significantly better. As a result of lots of people cease after the primary one too, or go away me opinions the place they’re like, she’s unhealthy at researching. And I’m like I advised you that I acknowledged it. I’m higher now. It’s nearly like I’ve been doing this for 5 years, and there’s 400 episodes, like possibly the primary 5 aren’t the most effective reference factors. Anyway, I really feel very strongly about it. But in addition, they get probably the most downloads, so that they’re not getting deleted.
However that’s all to say I began this podcast as a passion, explicitly, as a result of I used to be actually depressed, and I hated my job. I’d gone by means of a full blown quarter life disaster and stop my profession that I’d labored the whole lot for and moved throughout the nation residence ish, however not residence. And so it was similar to I used to be in a deeply messy place, and I used to be tremendous depressed, and lonely, and all I did was hearken to podcasts. And even like we talked about earlier than we began recording, such as you develop these sorts of relationships with the podcasters that you simply hearken to, they usually’re like pals. And that was simply my entire factor. And I began one purely as a result of I used to be like this could possibly be my factor too, like I might simply do that as a solution to cross the time to really feel much less depressed, what have you ever.
And that’s 100% why I began the present. And so it was actually piecemeal, it was like, I explicitly keep in mind that in all probability the primary three or 4 episodes, I wrote the script primarily in my cellphone’s notes app whereas I used to be not doing the job that I hated, whereas I used to be sitting in my workplace typing and like I used to be so I used to be studying on like Wikipedia and like different no matter different web sites I might get on my cellular phone, on my cellphone whereas I used to be like additionally writing within the notes app. So that they have been very simply they have been a stream of consciousness, however in a really completely different manner from what I do now. And it was simply thrown collectively and simply no matter got here to me.
And so I believe they’re good. And I don’t suppose that they have been unhealthy by way of like storytelling, however they weren’t as correct as I would really like, as detailed, they glossed over plenty of issues. All of the misogynists on the market who hate my present would say that I discussed the patriarchy an excessive amount of. I didn’t actually change that, however I received higher at it.
And I believe it’s only a matter of the extra you’re doing it and the extra sources you get to I believe the episodes the place I made a decision I received higher at it was once I began the Iliad. And that’s as a result of I used to be studying the Iliad, whereas earlier than I had been studying like books of Greek myths which are written by folks right now, versus the traditional sources. However with the Iliad, I needed to inherently go to the traditional sources and I believe that sort of switched one thing for me. And I spotted the worth of being solely or wherever potential, solely with historical sources, and what that did each for my element and accuracy and so many alternative issues.
And so yeah, I believe it’s only a matter of it’s simply follow, proper? It’s simply with podcasts, follow stays within the feed eternally. Whereas for those who’re writing a novel, you’re going to undergo 10 completely different drafts and nobody’s ever going to see these. However a podcast, particularly if you’re not beginning it with an organization backing you with producers with editors with all these various things, such as you’re simply beginning it with nonetheless you’re going to start out it. And yeah, like the primary in all probability 20 episodes of my present or follow that everybody will get to hearken to eternally.
Meredith: One million folks a yr hearken to and perpetuate.
Liv: Yeah. I really simply heard from a professor at a college who was like, I simply wish to let you recognize that I assigned your first episode to my class they usually actually beloved it. And he or she mentioned all these extremely type issues. However I used to be like, Oh, God, no, not my first episode. Choose a unique one. I’m so significantly better now.
Meredith: I ponder, do you suppose that okay, do you suppose they are surely that unhealthy? Or do you suppose you have been, have been you arduous in your set tougher on your self within the early days?
Liv: So I believe unhealthy is the improper phrase to make use of by way of how I actually really feel. I don’t suppose that they’re unhealthy. I simply suppose that they’re not illustration of what my present has been for the final three to 4 years. And I’m pleased with what the present is now. I’m pleased with what it was again then too. Nevertheless it was a unique present. It was leisure. It was similar to, right here’s a enjoyable and quippy fantasy. It’s going to be 20 minutes lengthy. It’s going to be actually floor degree. You’re going to have enjoyable. It’s wonderful.
And I don’t suppose there’s something improper with that. However what my present is now’s an actual deep dive into the traditional world, the traditional sources, the context, the nuance, the historical past, the whole lot in a manner that I like. And I believe lots of people additionally simply desire storytelling. So in all probability these early episodes are finest for them. However I like the whole lot I’ve realized and the main points I can go into now and the nuance and the historical past of actually the whole lot like I’m obsessive about that. And so to me, like I’m simply far more proud. And I believe that my present present is simply higher in all of these respects, however it is sort of a choice factor, in all probability greater than something.
Meredith: If you say historical sources I don’t I’m, are you able to clarify precisely what that’s? I don’t know. I actually know.
Liv: That’s honest. Yeah. I’m going to make use of plenty of phrases which are completely regular for me. So please ask about something. However historical sources, I, so what I imply by that’s the sources that really come from the traditional world. So I learn them in translation, however they’re from the traditional world. So I’m speaking in regards to the Iliad, the Odyssey, Homer’s works, quote unquote Homer, he in all probability wasn’t an actual man. However these are the works that we have now his identify on. Or the traditional performs, the performs of Euripides and Aeschylus and Sophocles.
These are a few of my favorites to cowl. Euripides is my favourite. He’s the very best. So these are performs that have been written within the historical world, written within the fifth century BCE carried out within the fifth century. And so they simply survive for us to learn right now. So the comparability between one thing that was written in historical Greece and survives for us to learn in translation, like the choice is say books of Greek fantasy which are written by folks within the final 100 years. So Edith Hamilton is probably the most well-known, I’d say. However there are such a lot of, I wrote one, mine is a, is an instance of this, folks writing in regards to the Greek myths, however from our, from now, simply over the past 100 years.
And sometimes what they’re doing is a bunch of various historical sources, they usually’re placing all of it collectively. However typically, they’re doing that, after which they’re inserting their very own narratives and typically biases, just like the ebook that I had that I used to be utilizing on the early days of the podcast, I simply discovered, it’s simply referred to as the Greek myths and prefer it was on sale at a bookstore and I used to be actually broke and doing this only for enjoyable. In order that’s the one I purchased and that’s the one I learn. And I’ve regarded again on components of it now. And it has all of those fully invented issues which are typically tremendous misogynist, and it presents them as if that’s precisely what was mentioned within the precise Greek, the traditional sources, the Greek mythology.
Whereas that is completely a person inserting his personal wild insults to girls which are like not within the historical sources in any respect. So typically if you’re studying these ones, and sadly, they’re probably the most accessible, they’re probably the most complete, they’re the best manner so that you can discover the entire tales similar to an on a regular basis individual accessing them. However they will typically be tremendous inaccurate by way of what we do know in regards to the historical world. And so they can typically be, as a result of for probably the most half, the whole lot’s been written by males up till very not too long ago, they will typically be actually misogynistic. And also you don’t know if you suppose like the traditional world was tremendous misogynistic, however it wasn’t that unhealthy. Like this man may even make it worse, which is saying one thing. Yeah, so it’s like that’s the large distinction and why I’m so particular now the place I’m going to be referring to the traditional sources wherever potential.
Meredith: So you are taking what I understand as a really intentionally intersectional lens when telling and deciphering these myths. And I’m curious if, and also you’re answering it, however a query I got here into this desirous to ask you was, do you suppose that these myths initially spring from a patriarchal heterosexual lens? Or is {that a} extra latter day retelling that we’re nonetheless disentangling ourselves from? I don’t know if that’s clear. Principally, I’m questioning, I used to be desirous to ask you for those who thought the myths began off as sexist as they appear.
Liv: The primary phrasing or query I believe is even higher. And I fully get it. So I’m completely going to reply that as a result of it’s just a little little bit of each in a manner that I believe is basically attention-grabbing. So there’s going to be loads right here. Principally, the traditional sources as we have now them now have been completely developed in a patriarchal society. Patriarchal, sure, heterosexual, no, which I believe is attention-grabbing. So the time wherein these items like say the Iliad and the Odyssey, I’m simply going to make use of these as the most effective instance as a result of they’re additionally the earliest surviving sources we have now from historical Greece. So that they’re from in regards to the eighth or ninth centuries BCE, a few of the oldest.
So that they have been developed in a patriarchal society. They have been developed round that point. They won’t have been written down till later as a result of the whole lot comes from an oral storytelling custom. So round that eighth, ninth century, these have been oral tales that have been advised by touring bards. Because of this we expect Homer was in all probability not an actual individual. It was in all probability plenty of touring bards that may journey the Greek world. They might inform these tales, however they’d sing them their songs set to music.
So it’s not even simply poetry, like they’re completely songs set to music, they’d sing them in entrance of a bunch of individuals, evening after evening, issues would change as a result of there have been completely different folks singing them. So all of them sung in regards to the Iliad, all of them sung in regards to the wrath of Achilles, however they’d insert issues, change issues, modify, presumably based mostly on the place they have been telling the story to whom, all of this stuff they’d wish to like function that area extra closely or there’s all these completely different connections that would make and why this stuff have been continuously altering as a result of it was solely ever spoken aloud. After which ultimately they have been written down into issues that we have now survived right now. So that they have been each developed and written down in a patriarchal society. Nonetheless,
the teams that existed in the identical areas earlier than and influenced the gods that exist within the Greek mythology that we all know have been, nonetheless lengthy, far again, in all probability 1000 years earlier than, they have been matriarchal in a manner, or we expect that they have been, we don’t have writing, however we have now plenty of collectible figurines which are girls which have breasts and the whole lot. We have now plenty of those who counsel that they have been usually pretty matriarchal, if not fully, like they have been, they worshiped goddess far more than they did by the point of the works that we have now, if that makes any sense within the Bronze Age and earlier, they worshiped girls much more.
And on their very own there’s plenty of goddesses that have been in all probability developed in that point after which handed all the way down to change into the goddesses of Greek fantasy, Athena, Aphrodite, Gaia. They initially in all probability have been extra goddess-based after which they only grew to become these lesser characters that they’re within the works that we have now. A whole lot of it’s simply based mostly on archaeology, not textual content, as a result of we don’t have, we don’t have tales from that point. We solely have if we have now any writing, it tends to be, like, actually sensible what existed within the palaces on the time.
And so all to say, like, all to say they have been all developed in that world, however additionally they have these leanings of goddesses. And you’ll really feel the place these goddesses are available in. Aphrodite is extremely sturdy. She is extremely sexually transgressive. She will get to do no matter she needs. And he or she’s married, however she doesn’t, she’s not together with her husband very a lot. She has youngsters with a bunch of different folks. She is a very good instance of this goddess that in all probability got here to us by means of an initially matriarchal society and was what we all know of Aphrodite right now. And so there’s loads in there. However in relation to the heterosexual facet, that’s, for probably the most half, one thing that took place extra when Christianity took maintain and that we’re nonetheless pulling aside right now. The traditional Greeks weren’t significantly heterosexual, however additionally they weren’t gay in the way in which that we consider it now. They, plenty of completely different city-states, primarily Athens and Sparta, or Sparta was just a little bit completely different. I’m going to speak about it in relation to Athens, as a result of they’d this follow referred to as pederasty, which is tremendous gross.
As a result of what it’s that older males would have a younger man slash boy who they’d mentor, however it was additionally an inherently sexual relationship. And it was, like, it was positively affection-based and romantic at instances as properly. They often had wives as properly. So there’s this actually, they only didn’t think about sexuality like we did. There’s no notion of homosexual, straight, bi, no matter. There’s simply nothing. It’s simply no matter is occurring. They didn’t marry the identical gender or issues like that. However they positively had sexual relationships. And if girls did, amongst different girls, we don’t actually have it clear as a result of they didn’t actually consider it that manner.
They in all probability wouldn’t have seen it as intercourse. So it didn’t are available in, however it was in all probability taking place loads. However as a result of it wasn’t penetrative, they didn’t see it as intercourse. And so we don’t hear about it. It’s actually attention-grabbing. We do have the poet Sappho from the Island of Lesbos. She is why we have now the phrase lesbian as a result of she wrote love songs to girls. And he or she was a lesbian as a result of she was from the Island of Lesbos. And that’s actually the place the phrase comes from. So there’s that. However she’s a one-off. And lots of people will let you know that her love poem songs weren’t about girls, that she was writing them for a person to present to a girl as a result of they prefer to fully erase her sexuality, no matter it
was. It’s actually fascinating. However, yeah, mainly, the heterosexuality that we assign to all of that’s positively Christian slash trendy. But in addition it’s simply it’s a must to ignore the whole lot you recognize about gender and sexuality. In terms of the traditional world, in an enchanting manner, I might go on eternally.
So I’ll cease myself now.
Meredith: Now, that’s so fascinating. I wish to be certain I’ve it proper. As you’re speaking, I’m nearly picturing a chemistry set. That sounds bizarre. Nevertheless it’s like these historical prototypical myths are, this liquid that then by means of these completely different lenses of the tradition of the time will get distilled in numerous methods.
So it’s if I find yourself, I believe I’ve the order proper, however right me if I’m improper. So Bronze Age, in all probability extra matriarchal, a few of the Greek goddesses that we all know have been in all probability greater gamers and worshiped a bit greater than it’s into the traditional Greeks, the place there’s not essentially a heterosexual lens, however there’s definitely a patriarchal lens utilized to the mores of the tales. After which we sadly lose a ton of the traditional texts. After which there’s these Bards in additional like darkish, round, did you say round 800 BCE?
Liv: So the Bards are literally like actually early historical Greece. Oh, okay. And yeah. So and I’ll make clear too, it’s in all probability earlier than the Bronze Age, the place it was matriarchal. However the Bronze Age has just a little bit extra of it leftover. However the Bronze Age is the place we first get, like, all the foremost stuff that we take into consideration. However there isn’t any, or there’s minimal writing that comes from that point. So there’s plenty of completely different durations in historical Greece. The Bronze Age is like 2000 BCE to 1200-ish. After which there’s this large decline. Lots of people debate plenty of various things about what occurred.
So I received’t attempt to try this. However then there’s like this early Iron Age interval, the place it’s actually transitional. We’re coping with a whole change in writing programs. So the writing that we have now from the Bronze Age there are like components that come into the traditional Greek that we all know now, however it’s fairly completely different. After which that’s when we have now this emergence of the oral storytelling custom. So we’re speaking like nearly proper after the Bronze Age. After which there’s the Archaic interval, which comes after that, which is like a few of the historical Greece that we consider, just like the Persian Wars. That’s just like the sixth, seventh centuries. After which we transfer into the Classical interval, which is what you actually consider. That’s when all of the philosophers are round. That’s when all of the playwrights are round. That’s when Athens goes to conflict with Sparta. After which from there, it’s just like the hellenistic interval, which comes after Alexander the Nice and all of this, after which the Roman interval. So mainly, like all of that’s patriarchal. Beforehand, there are these goddess collectible figurines that we expect counsel a matriarchal society, at the very least in some areas.
However yeah, the storytelling is definitely like oral storytelling of the touring bards is just like the earliest writing or tales that we have now now. Additionally, I spotted, so the early Iron Age is usually referred to as the Darkish Ages. It’s an excellent problematic time period although, really, as a result of Darkish Ages counsel one thing in regards to the folks when really what it simply means is a scarcity of sources, which is why we have now the Darkish Ages, the time interval I don’t even know, like extra not too long ago, I’m actually unhealthy with the whole lot after BC. Nevertheless it simply refers to a scarcity of sources, however it suggests one thing in regards to the folks that finally ends up being dangerous. However in Greece, they name it the Darkish Ages, however it’s really the early Iron Age interval as a result of it’s not darkish. We have now writing, we have now proof, like all these various things clarify it’s not really a Darkish Ages. However folks do typically name it that also. However yeah, that’s just like the early Darkish Ages. It’s just like the Greek Darkish Ages versus a thousand years later, when there’s one other quote unquote Darkish Ages.
Meredith: In order that is sensible. Sure. So the oral custom is going on. And that’s taking place earlier than the extra classical period. Is that proper?
Liv: Yeah. Yeah. In order that’s after we received just like the Iliad and the Odyssey and a lot extra that we don’t that has been misplaced or by no means written down within the first place. After which the classical interval is the place we get plenty of writing as a result of it’s when the philosophers are coming in, they’re writing a lot stuff. Plato wrote manner an excessive amount of. He was excessive. After which the playwrights the place we have now so lots of their performs surviving and tons of that we all know are lacking. After which there’s additionally like we solely have three surviving tragedians. So writers of tragedy, after we know there have been so many extra, however solely three like work from three of them survive.
After which there are the comedy writers too, of the classical interval. So there’s simply a lot content material from the classical interval. Whereas within the archaic interval, there’s much less and within the early Iron Ages, there’s even much less. So yeah, it’s simply sort of the development of that. However one factor that’s actually essential to consider is that the whole lot we have a tendency to speak about in relation to historical Greece from the philosophers to the playwrights to simply this common thought of what we consider for the classical interval broadly. And like that sort of influences how we see historical Greece usually tends to come back from Athens. Athens was a significant participant in that interval. However they weren’t as large earlier.
And so they definitely weren’t just like the be all and finish all of historical Greece is simply that’s the place the writing that not solely the writing that survives to us right now tends to come back from, however significantly additionally the writing that folks have been finding out for the final 1000 years. And over the previous few many years and centuries, I’d say, individuals are beginning to have a look at issues from different areas. However up till this level, we’re actually closely influenced by Athens. So the whole lot comes by means of this actually sturdy ethnocentric lens that influences what we expect. And so Athens was tremendous patriarchal. Athens, girls in Athens, their lives sucked. However we will’t say that with certainty about the remainder of Greece. Their lives have been completely different in Sparta, like marginally higher, however principally simply completely different. After which elsewhere, there’s like much more sorts of query marks. So plenty of what we are inclined to say about historical Greece, particularly within the classical interval and archaic too, to an extent, is rather like Athens.
Whereas Athens is a small a part of the bigger Greece, which can be reminder that historical Greece was not a unified place in any way. They have been at all times preventing with one another. We name them historical Greece now, however it was like a bunch of small states that typically would workforce up with each other. However finally, they have been all like particular person folks, particular person like states, and doing their very own factor, writing their very own stuff, having their very own dialects of Greek, like all that. It was actually broadly unfold out. And we simply now put all of it below one umbrella of historical Greece.
Meredith: So for the sources that aren’t from Athens of that point, have they at all times been round and simply of much less curiosity? Or have been these different areas simply a lot much less prolific that we have now to try to surmise issues in regards to the tradition versus Athens?
There’s such a physique of labor we will actually dig in. Like why haven’t we centered extra exterior of Athens but?
Liv: I’m much less sure about that. That’s extra of a query for academia, I believe, and particularly additionally how a lot exists from past Athens. Broadly, as a result of I’m researching Sparta now, I’ve a greater thought of that. And in relation to Sparta, nearly the whole lot we learn about Sparta was really written not by Spartans in any respect. Most of it was by Athenians who have been their enemies. So it’s actually attention-grabbing making an attempt to piece aside what occurred in Sparta. We have now writing from a few poets of Sparta, however simply poets. So we have now a little bit of poetry, however it doesn’t actually inform us something in regards to the society. So I’d say it’s in all probability 90% that the work from Athens is what really survived, primarily as a result of Athens was a spot the place they have been extra eager about writing issues down for survival.
It wasn’t that they have been smarter or extra attention-grabbing, it’s simply that they have been particularly extra eager about issues which are survivable now. They have been the large place for the tragedies, the performs, and in order that’s what survives from there, that’s the place the philosophers have been. After which simply usually, plenty of it isn’t coincidence as a result of you’ll be able to see why, however it isn’t as a result of they have been significantly particular. They have been like a powerhouse, however they’re additionally simply eager about stuff that occurs to outlive. But in addition the important thing to all of that is to ensure that one thing to outlive from the traditional world, tons of of various folks and teams must make acutely aware selections for it to outlive, apart from just a few actually uncommon circumstances. As a result of the bodily work from, say the Iliad and the Odyssey, the place it was in all probability written down within the seventh century, so like 600 BCE, to ensure that one thing to outlive from that point, it doesn’t simply survive within the type that existed again then, as a result of for probably the most half, until it was written all on clay tablets that by some means survived, which is unlikely, this stuff can have fallen aside.
And so it tends to be like folks must have copied them for posterity. A whole lot of that is available in through the Byzantine interval the place they’d all these libraries and the Byzantines have been copying plenty of stuff. So we have now the Byzantine interval and that space to thank for many of what survives right now. And so like loads over time, so many alternative folks needed to make these selections to maintain copying these works in order that they survive. So it’s additionally prefer it was as a result of the Athenians wrote down plenty of issues. After which it was as a result of these completely different folks have been within the Athenians writing. After which subsequent, like tons of of years later, these folks have been . So it’s only a sequence of various folks that we have now no management over having to have determined that they prefer to preserve a factor except for actually uncommon issues, however actually attention-grabbing ones. So we all know that there have been a ton of Tragedians writing these Greek tragedies yearly, they’d this large theater competition, they usually carried out a bunch of them yearly.
We have now a bunch, we all know a bunch of names of people that wrote them down, or who created these performs, however we solely have surviving performs from three completely different folks. East Coast and Sophocles, we have now, I believe it’s like between six and 9 performs that survive from every of them that we will learn now. And people received’t survive. And the identical common quantity from Euripides survive as a result of they have been taught in Byzantine colleges. So the Byzantine faculty system used them to show their college students. And so we have now all these copies that have been capable of survive as a result of the Byzantines, who have been in all probability what they have been nearly a thousand years after, if not like near that, as a result of they have been selecting to check this stuff, they survived for us right now.
Apart from Euripides the place he had a bunch of performs the place they weren’t taught in class. So that they’re the performs that like loads much less folks cared about, they have been much less well-liked, folks in all probability thought they have been unhealthy it’s like all filmmaker or artist inventive now, you’re gonna have works that aren’t supreme, and individuals are not going to recollect them or they’re, and it’s not going to be for good causes. And in your sake, for the opposite playwrights, we don’t know what their work was unhealthy, we don’t know the unhealthy ones as a result of they’re misplaced. By Euripides, we have now a bunch that survived as a result of this Byzantine collector had all of Euripides’ performs on these scrolls. And the scrolls every contained I don’t know, a handful, possibly 10 performs in a single scroll. They have been alphabetical. And one in every of his scrolls survives. So it’s like English letters H by means of Okay, I believe or one thing. It’s like just a few completely different letters within the alphabet that this one’s this one scroll survives.
And so we now have I believe it’s like possibly 10 of Euripides’ performs which are meh, they’re those that folks didn’t love within the historical world. We’re not finding out in colleges. They’re simply the random performs on this letter group. And so they’re referred to as the alphabet performs now. And mainly, as a result of this one factor managed to outlive, not deliberately, it was random, we have now all these performs that we wouldn’t in any other case have. And we have now this indication that not the whole lot was excellent. However that mentioned, too, we have now these performs that weren’t beloved within the historical world, however are like, so fascinating to check now.
So one in every of them is Helen, which I’ve coated on the present. And Helen is so attention-grabbing, as a result of it’s this alternate universe of the Trojan Conflict, the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy in any respect, this ghost model of her goes to troy. And as an alternative, she is dropped at Egypt, the place she simply likes residing, ready all of it out for all of that point. And we’d not have that play in any other case, as a result of no person cared about it within the historical world. However we have now it now. And it’s fascinating and bizarre and funky. And it’s simply fully random, dumb luck that we even have it to learn right now. I’m actually obsessive about the alphabet, if that isn’t apparent.
Meredith: So if you had Emily, of the Fuck Boys of Literature on, and that was the primary time that I actually heard about this. And also you have been speaking about the concept that there’s actually solely like a handful of the best hits that have been actually preserved and survived. However there are such a lot of different texts from this time that we simply don’t have entry to.
And it actually blew my thoughts. However you speaking in regards to the various universe Helen of Troy play, it makes me give it some thought. And in 500 years, individuals are like finding out our Netflix cues for all times claims about our tradition. And it’s yeah, these weren’t that good. Nobody was that into them. However we did watch them after dinner typically.
Liv: Yeah, no, there’s simply a lot. And I believe we have now this concept that the whole lot from the traditional world is good and engaging and funky. Nevertheless it’s that’s as a result of that’s the stuff that sufficient folks determined was good and engaging and funky that it exists right now. And right now, we don’t take into consideration that as a result of the whole lot is inherently a lot extra preservable between the web and similar to the standard of books and all these various things, prefer it’s simply so completely different. However again then with the issues that they’d and the writing buildings and the overall custom, which was like, particularly with artwork on this manner, the custom was to not write it down.
The custom was to simply go sing it to your pals. And so it needed to be actually deliberately written down as a result of there was like a goal behind it. However what’s actually fascinating is how we all know all of the issues that we don’t know, as a result of there’s received to be loads that we don’t know existed, however it did, however we’ll by no means know. However there’s loads that we all know existed and it’s misplaced. And that’s simply because different folks would reference it of their writing and their writing survives.
So any person can be like, so there’s this poet, there’s these two poets the place they wrote a ton, however not plenty of it survives. Pherecrates is one and Simonides is one other. Pherecrates, I believe is the one I’m considering of the place it’s we all know he wrote a lot mythology, however nearly nothing survives in full. Whereas as an alternative, it’s any person like, say, Pseudo-Apollodorus was like, Pherecrates wrote this entire story about this and this. However we don’t have it, we all know it existed as a result of apollodorus wrote that it existed. So we like know that he learn it, however we will’t learn it. And I believe really it would even be Pherecrates, any person wrote a model of this story the place Helen doesn’t go to Troy, this ghost of her goes. We all know that it wasn’t invented by Euripides. He received the thought from an earlier poet, however not a lot of that poet’s work survives. We simply realize it existed in any respect.
Meredith: Oh my God. Have you ever seen the play Arcadia by Tom Stoppard? It’s my all time favourite performs and possibly one in every of my all time favourite works of literature. And there’s a, one of many foremost characters in it’s she’s within the 1800s. And he or she’s obsessed and so saddened to the, to distraction by all of those historical texts that have been misplaced and fires and it’s, and truly in some methods the play is about like humanity coming to grips with the truth that we are going to lose and overlook issues on a regular basis and we have now to love reinvent it continuously.
And this dialog is making me take into consideration that loads.
Liv: Yeah. I take into consideration this stuff the entire time. Like I’ve a working listing of all of the Euripides performs that I do know existed, however I can’t learn and I’m mad about it on a regular basis. However there’s additionally so many large query marks about like variations of tales or one factor that’s come up for me not too long ago is there’s this actually well-known fantasy of Cupid and Psyche and everybody thinks of Cupid and Psyche or definitely everybody in my circles. It’s a very main story, however the one model we have now that tells that story is written by a Roman novelist named Apuleus.
And I believe it’s fairly clear that he made most of it up, however we will’t be certain. There’s no proof that the story of their entire relationship existed in any comparable manner within the Greek world. And so we have now to imagine that he made it up. But in addition he might have learn one other factor and developed his story based mostly off of that’s misplaced and we’ll by no means know. Or the little bit of the Trojan Conflict the place the Computer virus exists and the place Achilles, will get the arrow by means of his heel and we get all that, all of that stuff that’s like probably the most well-known components of the Trojan Conflict. None of that really exists in an historical Greek supply that survives. It exists in a Roman supply. And we all know that he was basing his work off of Greek sources that survived for him, however don’t survive for us now. So we all know the Computer virus and Achilles’ heel existed in Greek mythology and in Greek historical past, however we don’t even have that bodily work.
Meredith: I don’t need this to be an excessively gimmicky query. However I’d hate getting a query like this for the report. However for those who solely protect one Greek fantasy for the subsequent millennia are you aware which one it will be?
Liv: Oh, I do know I’ve a solution. I don’t suppose it’s like a terrific reply based mostly on a ton of various elements that in all probability needs to be put into such an essential query. However I’d simply say the Odyssey as a result of it’s nice. And I like the Odyssey. Yeah. In order that’s my favourite straightforward go-to. No, Greek fantasy, use a Greek fantasy. So I’m going to say the Odyssey. Yeah. As a result of in any other case, I’d have mentioned Euripides play, however performs are completely different. They don’t depend. It’s wonderful.
Meredith: And with out the Odyssey, you’d by no means have had your VHS mini sequence.
Liv: Precisely. Yeah, I’d have by no means change into this. It’s nonetheless my favourite Greek epic. Odysseus is my problematic love. He does plenty of unhealthy issues and I like him eternally. Yeah, it’s all of the Odyssey for me. I do know we don’t have an excessive amount of time left. And I’ve, I’m sorry, I rant loads.
Meredith: I beloved it. And I presume. So I wish to discuss just a little bit about Medusa with you. And I do know that it’s one thing that you simply talked a couple of bit. You’ve talked with different friends and had actually attention-grabbing questions and conversations round. And I additionally know I’m not on Twitter, however I do know you’ve talked about on the podcast that that is one which for you appears to mild up your Twitter everytime you’re tweeting about Medusa.
And I, I don’t know, I’ve at all times been actually drawn to it for some cause. And I shouldn’t say it for some cause. I believe there’s plenty of complicated issues about girls’s energy in that fantasy. And it actually hits on some archetypal nerves in plenty of methods. So possibly you can give us a one minute abstract of Medusa. And like, why do you suppose it hits such a nerve with of us right now?
Liv: Okay, I’m going to do it actually, it’s going to be fast. And thus I’ll communicate plenty of phrases very quick. So Medusa, oh gosh, there’s a lot. So the earliest type of Medusa is that this man named Hesiod. And he says that she was a Gorgon. He doesn’t describe what a Gorgon was. He says that she’s a Gorgon who was born to Forkis and Keto, who’re like sea monster goddesses or gods and goddesses.
After which he says that she suffered a woeful destiny. She was primarily assaulted by Poseidon and like ultimately Perseus minimize her head off. And in order that’s just like the earliest type of her story, like primarily all of it. After which like a bunch of various issues change, there’s just a few completely different variations of it. However the large one which will get picked up is Ovid, who’s a Roman creator, he’s writing in all probability at the very least seven or 800 years after Hesiod wrote that earlier bit.
And Ovid has this entire story the place really she’s this stunning lady and he or she’s a priestess of Athena and Poseidon once more assaults her however in Athena’s temple after which she will get punished by Athena for that her hair turns to snakes and he or she turns folks to stone. After which once more, Perseus comes and kills her. And so these are just like the fundamentals of it. However what folks I believe take maintain due to popular culture and so many alternative issues is this concept that she’s this terrifying monster who’s out to harm folks and deserves dying by Perseus. However none of that really exists within the Greek fantasy. That was in all probability a minute.
Meredith: No, that’s so just like the bizarre story in that within the telling of it, she’s punished for being assaulted primarily.
Liv: In Ovid. Yeah.
Meredith: Okay. However then prefer it’s there’s this cultural understanding of her as this monster who loves turning folks to stone.
Liv: Yeah, none of that exists in Greek fantasy and actuality in historical Greek sources. So earlier than Ovid and never Ovid, she just isn’t ever proven as hurting anyone. We don’t know that she turned anyone to stone. We simply know that she might.
Yeah, like we don’t have proof that she ever did it. We simply know that like bodily she might and we actually solely know that as a result of her head afterwards turns issues to stone. However till her head is bodily caught from her physique, she doesn’t really hurt anyone. And Perseus just isn’t despatched to kill her as a result of she’s harmful.
That’s a very frequent false impression. Like he’s not despatched there as a result of she’s inflicting bother or like she’s harming folks. He’s despatched there as a result of this king of Seriphos needs him useless in order that he can marry Perseus’s mother. And the way in which that he thinks he can kill off Perseus with out angering the mom is to simply be like, hey, go get me her head, show that you simply’re a hero, go convey me Medusa’s head. So it’s purely that he wants the top. It’s not like stopping any hurt or saving anyone. Prefer it’s simply completely randomly picked as a result of he, like this king, thinks that it’s going to kill Perseus to get her head.
However yeah, so like this entire thought develops that she’s like folks on Twitter have advised me by folks, I imply males, have advised me that like the explanation she needed to be killed is as a result of she was terrorizing the lands and like her dying alleviated a stress on the earth. And it’s all in your head, dude. And I can see your misogyny displaying like what are you speaking about? Nothing about that exists in Greek fantasy. The worst we have now is in Ovid the place she is surrounded by statues and the implication is that she turned folks to stone. However once more, that’s solely an Ovid and he’s already made her a sufferer of assault. Like he already makes her a sympathetic character. So it doesn’t even add something to the argument that she hurts folks.
Meredith: All proper, possibly this can be a good solution to wrap it up is that I like the Greek myths. I’m a really linear thinker. And one factor that I discover complicated about them is I’m like, the place do I begin? Like, how do I, proper now, it typically appears to me like, it’s like making an attempt to grasp an eight season TV present by beginning in season 4. So if somebody was like, I actually need a foundational understanding of the who’s who and the essential narrative right here, the place would you set them?
Liv: Oh so the primary factor I inform folks if you’re coming to Greek fantasy is you’ll be able to’t have that viewpoint. If you wish to really perceive it from the traditional world, if you wish to perceive it by means of a very trendy perspective, however lose the entire historical nuance, then you’ll be able to decide up any ebook of Greek myths. I’d suggest one written by a girl as a result of we have a tendency to have the ability to push apart plenty of the misogyny. Edith Hamilton is fairly good. It’s very previous. So it does have extra of that.
I wrote one, however it’s very floor degree. So there’s books. However the factor about Greek fantasy is that again to the oral storytelling I discussed, that’s the manner that they meant the tales to be understood. And it was by no means about linearity. It was by no means about narrative construction. It was by no means about mainly it’s a must to overlook the whole lot you suppose you recognize about what a narrative or a story needs to be. As a result of that was not the intention of any of those. Like they have been advised to similar to share tales round a fireplace or to elucidate one thing within the pure world or to elucidate the significance of sure areas and cities.
Like each space of historical Greece has some story linked them to Heracles as a result of he was just like the hero for all Greece. And they also would all make up their very own tales of how he was linked to their tradition. And sometimes it’s 5 phrases. And that’s like a complete story. As a result of it didn’t, it wasn’t about what we consider as tales. It was in regards to the general like goal of what was being shared. So I believe the easiest way to grasp it by way of the traditional world is to disregard the whole lot you suppose you wish to learn about tales and to simply decide up something actually. However I perceive that that’s troublesome.
So there are like, gods, I don’t know, there’s simply there’s an excessive amount of to know to place it into one straightforward factor. I believe my present is an effective reference level as a result of you’ll be able to nearly begin on any episode, so long as it’s not one that claims like half two of three in, within the title. And I’m going to present you adequate background and stuff. However I believe that the important thing and what I believe makes the way in which I’m coming at these myths, significantly related for the myths themselves, is the way in which that they initially have been meant to be advised, which is that it wasn’t about this construction, it wasn’t about understanding all of it. You can’t have in your head a timeline as a result of timelines didn’t exist.
As a result of these tales have been advised over 800 years. Loads modifications over 800 years. So it’s simply not about, it’s not about dotting the I’s and crossing the T’s as a result of that they didn’t care. It was like 800 years of tradition melded into these tales. And so the way in which I do it’s story based mostly. So you’ll be able to simply click on a narrative you wish to hear. But in addition, I give sufficient background and historical past and all these completely different variations and why and the whole lot. So I believe, yeah, I’ve plenty of episodes to hearken to it’s daunting. However I believe that’s a great way to grasp the way it labored and why as a result of it’s a lot extra attention-grabbing for those who perceive the why.
Meredith: All proper. That’s fascinating. Is there a specific episode of yours that you simply play for those who simply wish to dip your toes and begin right here?
Liv: Let’s say the Theogony, not my first episode, which can be in regards to the Theogony, however I did one final yr or the yr earlier than the place I went again and I did a way more detailed have a look at the Theogony. And I ought to clarify what the Theogony means. It actually simply means just like the delivery of the gods.
So primarily, it’s just like the origin story of the entire gods. So it introduces a bunch of individuals and the place they arrive from and why and yeah, I don’t know. There’s simply, there’s a lot. There’s an excessive amount of.
Meredith: No, we will discover that Theogony and put it within the present notes for positive. And I’d additionally say I like your ebook. So I’ve your ebook. It’s referred to as Greek mythology, the gods goddesses and heroes handbook. Illustrations are attractive.
I discovered it a useful reference level. I’m positively like at instances like, wait, who is that this individual? And so I, for what it’s price, I’d actually suggest that to you. It’s actually been useful and simply so enjoyable to web page by means of for me.
Liv: Thanks. I believe it’s in all probability, I consider it as being so floor degree and no matter. Additionally, I used to be commissioned to put in writing it. However that’s why I discuss it like that. And I like it to be clear. However yeah, I do suppose it in all probability is a very good start line as a result of additionally the entire commissioning facet of it from the writer was that they wished a ebook that additionally connects in like the place you may know sure characters from popular culture, which is an effective solution to get a grip on what you’re studying and what names you may bear in mind or acknowledge and issues like that. So all of that’s within the ebook.
And it does cowl plenty of form of the introductory degree myths and just like the gods and, why you need to be and what their sort of main tales have been. So yeah, possibly my ebook is an ideal introduction.
Meredith: All proper thanks a lot, Liv. We’ll hyperlink within the present notes the whole lot you gave us a trillion nice references. We’ll attempt to get in there. And I really feel like I might have picked your mind about these items for hours. You’re such a font of knowledge. Thanks for a way beneficiant you’re together with your information and your expertise.
Liv: Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot. I hope I talked sufficient about content material relatively than Greek myths, however I might in all probability discuss Greek myths eternally.
Meredith: Thanks.
Liv: Thanks.
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Meredith: Okay, everybody, we hope that you simply loved our dialog with Liv as a lot as we did.
Ian: Subsequent week, we’ll be speaking with one other podcaster and YouTuber Caroline Winkler.
Meredith: Caroline has a very inventive, fantastic YouTube channel with greater than 400,000 subscribers. We talked to her about what it’s prefer to have a profitable profession on YouTube and her new podcast, Not For Everybody.
To assist this present, you’ll be able to fee, assessment and subscribe. These issues make an enormous distinction. And for those who’d like right now’s dialog, you’d in all probability just like the content material folks publication, subscribe on the hyperlink within the present notes.
Ian: And that’s it of us. Thanks a lot for listening.
